Dr. Christopher Vellturo Testifies at Apple v Samsung Trial

This is a trial report of the testimony of Dr. Christopher Vellturo. I missed his direct testimony, and the beginning of his cross-examination. This is a trial report not a transcript. It is taken from my typed notes of the trial. In some cases I am paraphrasing what was said. And there may be errors. Also, in many instances I was not able to keep up and so testimony is missing. I may indicate this by saying so or inserting question marks.

What follows is a good portion of the cross-examination of Dr. Vellturo, I believe by John Quinn, followed by redirect from an Apple attorney (not Mr. McElhinny).

Cross Examination of Dr. Vellturo by John Quinn

Quinn: You’re not qualified to give scope of patent claims?

Vellturo: Yes

Quinn: If Apple claims for example that claim 20 that covers all syncyhing you are not qualified

Vellturo: That’s right correct

Quinn: When you say Samsung implemented noninfringing alternative you are saying something that changes apple – w

Vellturo: I’m sorry?

Quinn: When you say non-infringing alternative – what you are saying something about Samsung phone changed so that now even Apple says non infringing

Unknown:  ?You that’s right?

Vellturo: I am not saying that Samsung changed that feature that they are not infringing

Quinn: So lets talk about the off the market loss profits

Vellturo: Yes

Missed something here

Missed something here

Quinn: You calculated lost profits for four months

Vellturo: I did

Quinn: And under four months you said 507 million plus

Vellturo: Yes

Quinn: If we could look at claimed ds 9320 if we could put that on the screen. Confidential document.So the number of this off the market lost profits the 507 million number. That is the only number you have given the jury for lost off market profits.

Vellturo: No not quite correct. Oh for off market? Yes

Quinn?:If valid and 4 months ???[off market?]

Unknown: I.. observe Samsung time previous

Quinn: If in fact it were 1 months rather than 4 months that would go from down to 17 million.

Might have missed something from Vellturo here.

Quinn: You know that it is small.

Vellturo: Yes.

Quinn: You have not done that calculation.

Vellturo: Yes.

Missed something here.

Missed something here.

Quinn: So you know how to do that but you chose to come and show the jury with the larger 4 months.

Vellturo: I provided the four month figure.

Quinn: You testified on Tuesday that after file suit ??? you testified how ??? non infringing alternative do you recall saying that?

Probably Quinn: Trial testimony put up on screen from Tuesday.

Koh: OK

Quinn: Add to 721 did Samsung actually introduce non-infringing alternative?

Vellturo: Yes.

Quinn: And when did it do that?

Vellturo: In June 2012.

Quinn: And how long was that after Apple filed?

Vellturo: Apple filed 2/9/12. So four months.

Read above?

Missed a lot of Quinn here: ….So 4 months?

Vellturo: Correct


Quinn: So you are familiar with Galaxy Note – that was a subject of your study?

Vellturo: Yes.

Quinn: Galaxy Note lets look. Video lets look at how it unlocks. Actually not video maybe he is actually doing it.

Vellturo: No I did not.

Quinn: Now that’s not infringing right?

Vellturo: That’s what you would call a non-infringing alternative.

Quinn: If it’s not infringing then its an non-infringing alternative. I actually don’t come up with that

Slide pulled up and some questioning – Samsung products accused


Exhibit Accused Samsung Products.


Quinn: That shows released Galaxy Note ??? ??

Vellturo: Correct

Quinn: So you said on Tuesday Feb 12 2012

Vellturo: February 8 2012

Quinn: And according to your testimony that had unlocking that did not infringe (I think Galaxy Note)

Vellturo: It was releaed Feb 17 and damages calculated

Quinn: Maybe wasn’t clear as of February 2012 Samsung patent unlocking device true?

Vellturo: Yes

Quinn: So when you were asked on Tuesday instead of giving answer June 2012 a more accurate answer would be had non-infringing alternative in February.

Vellturo: No that’s not right.

Unknown: So this is not accused

Unknown: Oh I understand

Unknown: And this was released in February?

Quinn: Lets take a look at exhibit 196.1 – if we could put this up on the screen. This is the document that a user was put on the phone ??? Do you recall test?

Vellturo: Yes

Quinn: Blow up language – when the syn icon ?? can’t do anything do you see

Vellturo: Yes

Quinn: You showed on Tuesday

Vellturo: Yes

Quinn: You used

Unknown:  thought today

Unknown: I thought Tuesday – may be wrong

Quinn: Responded negatively sync

Vellturo: Yes reported review document.

Quinn: And you did that wanted to confince importance claim 20 imp

Vellturo: No I would not characterize it that way when I saw things about alleged infringing features.

Quinn: Well you wanted to ?? synching

Vellturo: No that’s not correct.

Quinn: Well you wanted to show if you did not use syncing architecture.

Vellturo: No I would not.

Quinn: Would you agree with me that if this is talking about version architecture that has same syncing architecture???

Vellturo: Sorry I could not follow that question.

Quinn: Would you agree with me that – this is an internal Google document

Vellturo: Yes.

Quinn: ?? ? a version of Android that has very same syncing architecture accuses in this case. That it really cannot be used as an example of can’t be used?

Vellturo: I think I understand I think technical correct. But response to feature

Quinn: I you mean that reason freezing was because it didn’t use it?

Vellturo: No that is not what I was doing with this example.

Quinn: Do you know that version of Android has same syncing that infringes that paid?

Vellturo: I don’t know I am not a technology expert.

Quinn: But do you think – your are experienced.

Vellturo: Yes.

Quinn: And I think you told us 200 times?

Vellturo: Since graduate school sounds about right.

Quinn: Before coming to this jury and suggested and how worthless smartphones can be would if they don’t’ use wouldn’t you want to look into whether it has it

Vellturo: That’s not what I am doing with this document. Consumers recognize when feature doesn’t work. No when my understanding is without using they run a greater risk. I am not ??? ????

Quinn: Sir when you talked to the jury you did not say that.

Vellturo: I am sure I did not use those exact words.

Quinn: You did not say an illustration when freeze.

Vellturo: Oh I didn’t say that’s true.

Quinn: And just to be clear since you didn’t look you don’t know all – it would simply be to wrong to leave jury that it didn’t?

Vellturo: That would be wrong because you need the technical experts.

Quinn: You told us also … You told us sequence of events universal search – user complaints rewored after complaints

Vellturo: Yes.

Quinn: And you told to show some measure of how valuble.

Vellturo: Yes.

Quinn: When you told them didn’t you leave something out?

Quinn: You know for a fact sir go too – Google special version quick search box that didn’t have local search because injunction entered.

Vellturo: Yes

Quinn: The jury wasn’t told that.

Vellturo: They were already told them that that doesn’t effect.

Quinn: You now injunction was done – Google came out .. court of appeal reversed you know that was obtained on patent that apple abandoned.

Vellturo: I did not know.

Quinn: You know that Apple did another patent on universal search.

Quinn:: You know about those because you were on that one?

Vellturo: I did.

Quinn: And deposition taken and you talked about first time buyers.

Vellturo: Yes.

Koh: Break


Quinn: Just to finish up on injunction issue on universal search. You know that ?niv? was included in Samsung ?? release ???

Vellturo: I don’t know that.

Quinn: So you don’t have any facts that any consumer / user having anything to do with bringing back.

Vellturo: I saw what Dr. ?Coburn?  That’s it



Vellturo: I don’t have those exact technical skills to know …

Quinn: So it wouldn’t be right to knowledge history universal was included in jelly bean because you don’t know correct?


Vellturo: I am not here to technical




Unknown: Well the appeal they won, right.


Quinn: Apple can be wrong, right?

Vellturo: Yes.

Quinn: I don’t know nobel prize for principal if you think you are right don’t give in to big competitor is that a ?

Unknown: Is that a concept?



Quinn: Filed declarations 100+ pages?

Vellturo: Yes.

Quinn: And you were deposed.


Quinn?: And you know that

Quinn: And nowhere in all those papers did you file did you say anything about this ?? and ?? preference

Vellturo: I’d have to see the report. Its such a common in economics I don’t recall.

Quinn: Reports knowing that this was opportunity we have know about – ?? nobel prize you hadn’t said anything in stand. Correct?

Vellturo: No. I didn’t use word but was all over

Quinn: But you didn’t use the word


Quinn: Lets talk about Dr. Hauser and his ?work? if we could pull up ?? this is confidential. And fro this second category dim  demand lost  profits that is going to run from – conclusions about Dr. Hauser reaches percentage decrease sales Samsung phones if didn’t.

Vellturo: Partly correct partly not.

Quinn: For these ?? profits you used % in from Hauser to decrease Samsung.

Vellturo: In the cal? I do use those percentages.

Quinn: And in terms of data the only quantities you have about decline in consumer demand if no feature that is Dr Hauser.

Vellturo: No that is quite not quite right.

Unknown: Other than Hauser quantifiable.

Unknown: There are decreases in demand off market and those take none

Vellturo: I am talking about diminished demand

Quinn: So your talking about diminished demand . The only diminished demand that only Hauser.

Unknown: What other quantifiable?

Vellturo: I used his percentages for calculations.

Quinn: OK.

Vellturo: Could I. There is much broader analysis that I did ?? change in market shares That is important part ?? ?? determines significant important a lot of other calculations. When ??? use percentages

Quin: Lets use your words computations calculations diminished demand you relied on Dr Hauser’s survey.

Vellturo: Yes I did

Quinn: And that’s only quantitative data that you had attributable Samsung

Vellturo: Those are the percentages I used.

Quinn: Put up an exhibit – this is one page – you ?? the survey correct?

Vellturo: I did.

Quinn: If we can go back to the exhibit 9272 that we were just looking at. If the jury concludes that Dr Hauser’s survey that ??? its not reliable then those decreased percentages.

Vellturo:That naturally follows.

Quinn: And those computations would not be correct.

Vellturo: Those would be changed to reflect.

Quinn: But those only number Dr. Hauser correct.

Vellturo: Correct.

Quinn: You translated into how much fewer Samsung.

Vellturo: Roughly correct.

Quinn: And those ??? if percentage decreases wrong then number ?jhnits? incorrect

Vellturo: They would need to be change

Quinn: Dr Hauser gave you numbers which you used right?

Vellturo: Yes.

Quinn: OK you also take a  look at exhibit 2367 the willingness to pay ???

Vellturo: I remember these numbers yes.

Quinn: This is not confidential. Although math? You took these into consideration as well. You took them into consideration in your analysis?

Vellturo: At a very high level yes.


(Willingness to pay exhibit 414 background sync 69 quick link 56 univ 44 last ?? 3 digit low)

Quinn: Let’s take a look at exhibit ? not confidential.

Quinn?: This is your

Unknown: This shows diminished demand 959 -4.47%, 647 6.87% 414 back 8.27% applied individually each product




Quinn: So your true damages number – you know you assume without these three features I mean the total is about so if you were to assume and its best selling phone it would use 1 out of 5 sales correct.

Vellturo: Yes.

Quinn: And again percentage from Dr Hauser.

Unknown: ??? affirming sort of


Unknown: ??? (linear regression)


Quinn: Based upon Dr. Hauser’s survey 92.72 is 559.6 million approx.. That is the ?? you come up with.

Vellturo: Yes.

Quinn: In another part of your damages relates to reasonable royalty ?? this is under seal just for jury – and these numbers here this is what we characterized hypothetical negotiation what Apple would be willing to accept I think it is what looking at to agree to hypothetical and grant.

Unknown: Again this relates to reasonable royalty is used Dr. hauser

Unknown: One of the number hauser

Quinn: Lets look not ?? number 6.14% ??

Vellturo: Yes.

Quinn: That’s the number you call what we are looking at Hauser percentage representative product Epic 4G ? ??

Vellturo: Right that is the product just about to be released before negotiation.


Quinn: ? that’s where the royalty will be

Vellturo: It is.

Quinn: So you know start far apart – you conclude Samsung accept Apple’s number.

Quinn: And Samsung would just raise prices right?

Unknown: Or – will two things raise prices or take ???

Quinn: I think you told us this first number here comes from Dr. Hauser – although linearized is

Unknown: But ??

Unknown: It’s not small its 15% of the number I think

Unknown: If ? put 0 on it then this formula works it 0

Quinn?: So if you’re Apple accept

Vellturo?: Yes.


Quinn: Well hypothetical notion described jury.

Vellturo: Yes.

Quinn: Let’s take a look at exhibit ??? Samsung willingness to ? confidential. This is what you conclude Samsung would be willing to pay.

Vellturo: Yes at that time.

Quinn: And that’s based on Hauser?

Vellturo: With an adjustment yes.

Quinn: If they find not reliable they cannot use calculation.

Vellturo: No just change number in variable.

Quinn: Is it your testimony that Hauser provided different numbers.

Unknown: ??? sizes a???

Unknown: Do you mean to ???

Unknown: One phone

Unknown: Yeah so h

Quinn: Is it approipriate come up number out of the air?

Vellturo: No I suggest not

Quinn: He did not give other?

Vellturo: Yes

Quinn: So if they reject his analysis they need to change calculations?

Unknown: Do their own survey

Unknown: There is a lot more information in this trial


Vellturo: Correct

Quinn: You’ve come here and you’ve selected some documents to

Quinn: And you’ve selected portions of some documents

Vellturo: From large sample yes.

Quinn: So the only numbers decrease demand.

Vellturo: Well not with respect to off market



Quinn: Do you intend to provide more later?

Vellturo: No.

Quinn: Reasonable royalty ?? Hauser

Vellturo: Some degree yes


Quinn: Have you seen – I think put up sdx2375 – this is your edgeworth box?

Vellturo: Yes

Quinn: This represents calculation willingness to pay


Quinn: And also the minimujm ??



Unknown: If that’s what you conclude $40.10 (pointing not saying)


Unknown: [Something about if all 5 patents pay]

Unknown: If you take the ?? its roughly 8 dollars by patent but 45/5 is 8


Quinn?: 8 times 250 patents


Quinn: Were you here when Dr Schiller when each up (lage number cited ) features



Vellturo?: That would be big number yes


Quinn: OK lets talk about documents presented to jury on Tuesday you came up with graph 92.8. And you recall that you kind of talked through this graph and on the graph – not confidential . And there were those ?? though significant

Vellturo: Yeah it was subject 200 docs in my report ?? didn’t all

Unknown: And first one prices ex//?

Unknown: The first document ??

Unknown: That’s with?

Unknown: Yes that’s it

Quinn: If we could put that on the screen if you read to the jury in terms of page 3 some language here – all the carriers tell you ?hy jk?, your phones have tech hard to sell high-end phones that because subsidy ??phones I fear


Quinn: Do you recall reading this jury

Unknown: Other one did not read recall

Unknown: Very big

Unknown: A company goes out of business factors – diligence, sincerity exemplary company say yes to carrier wants.. short cut out of business.


Quinn: I have carriers telling – carriers is route to going out of business.


Uknown: Paired it up with what he did ?? I can’t square this?

Quinn: So your tech expert now?

Vellturo: No I am economists it provides ?description? competitive disadvantrage.

Quinn: OK says here carriers tell us make something like iPhone that is what you said to jury – sentence before go out of business.

Vellturo: I don’t interpret those words that way.

Quinn: Well Mr. Schiller Monday ?? cells

Unknown: That one ?? lets use ?? screen size as our advantage

Quinn: Lets look at middle of page. And by the way another didn’t read.

Quinn: He says our most important asset – screen size and in future will even be e-books.

Vellturo: Correct.

Quinn: Higher you read language jury when Samsung’s ??? Heaven and earth difference do you recall?

Vellturo: I do

[Here Mr. Quinn was asking about the specific phone and he misspoke and called the Omnia phone the Amonia phone. Dr. Vellturo made a joke about Samsung needing better marketing if that was the name.]


Quinn: Difference between phones. And you know Omnia that ran on Windows operating system correct?

Unknown: ?Recollection?

Unknown: Not Android.

Unknown: So this crisis of design relates to phones that suamsung had been making that run on windows before switch to Android.

Unknown: Using as an example??


Unknown: Above words crises of design



Quinn: Side by side comparison??

Vellturo: Yes.

Quinn: ???? you showed jury in side by side

Unknown: The first one iPhone apps???

Quinn: If we take a look at 121 If we start 92.13 this is a demonstrative you showed jury

Vellturo: No I don’t think so


Unknown: Oh this document – this is professor Coburns testimony

Unknown: This is ??

Quinn: At top you – off highlighted ???

Vellturo: Correct.

Quinn: You moved that up and ?? that came from document –

Vellturo: Yes one of slides.

Quinn: Lets turn to that page. Plaintiff exhibit 121 at 100 – and this is the actual page where you pull that language out.


Unknown: Is on the screen in front of you.

Unknown: You are asking single sheet

Unknown: ? ?demonstrative

Unknown: This is one page from document

Unknown: And this is ?? demonstrative

Vellturo: Yes

Quinn: And this is talking about ?victory iPhone

Vellturo: Yes

Quinn: Says here no standard flick unlock can with slight flick – see?

Vellturo: I do.

Quinn: It says Victory screen lock gets unlocked slight flicked

Vellturo: I do

Quinn: iPhone handled sliding.

Quinn?:Below that problem with just flick there is no standard it can unlock with slight flick

Vellturo: Yes.

Quinn: So its saying here flick is problem better to slide is saying?

Vellturo: Its saying problem is handled by iPhone for sliding.

Quinn: Well let me go back to document it says by sliding. Is it your answer sliding?

Vellturo: I am not tech expert but yes.


Quinn: Better to slide….



Page 19

Quinn: ??Another screen unlock. Again – if user did not touch ??? ??? it shows guide text – see?

Vellturo: I do.

Quinn: What is saying until touch no indication direction

Vellturo: That is my interpretation of the language yeah.

Quinn: It is saying it needs to give some indication right?

Vellturo: Its a cue as to what do

Quinn: What Samsung good to be cue because when they see they don’t’ get cue

Vellturo: I think it says more need a cue and what to do if you have cue

Quinn: If use did not see icon would not/???


Unknown: ?Correct

Unknown: Yes


Quinn: 92.8 talk about crisis of design side-by-side and then document of September 2011 that is visit of Mr. Choy and if we could turn to ?? exhibit 214 this is another document relied on in your opinions. If we could look at 214 on page 8 and on Tuesday, you looked at this page page 8 and told jury that carriers will compete language at the top. And this is confidential – top carriers will compete to capture buy first smart phones ?? So this is the question about new smartphone purchase?

Vellturo: Yes

Quinn: ?? it says lower right first time buyers have lower willingness to pay?

Vellturo: Yes.

Quinn: 49 and 99 price points grow important

Vellturo: I do

Quinn: And you know sells at other price points?

Vellturo: Yes.

Quinn: Well you know ??

Vellturo: No.

Quinn: You don’t agree?

Vellturo: No I don’t agree.

Quinn: 2011 when prepared Samsung sold many different phones.

Vellturo: Can I ask clarifying statement – carrier total

Unknown: Price to consumer

Unknown: Different price points

Unknown: But average price Samsung was lower than iPhone

Vellturo: I don’t know that.

Quinn: Well you testitifed Tuesday important once buy very likely to next purchase from similar manufacturer.

Vellturo: That doesn’t sound right.



Unknown: First part right not later.




Quinn: Concept of  stickiness so ?60 million? These are fist time smartphone?

Vellturo: Yes

Quinn: And a lot of those 1st time already own feature phones, correct?

Vellturo: Yes.

Quinn: None of them own Apple feature phone – no such thing.

Vellturo: True

Quinn: And so a lot of those would have Samsung feature phones?

Vellturo: I don’t think so share was very low. Samsung stickiness does not transfer from – Familiarity with features

Quinn: I see you did not testify on Tuesday [presumably to that fact or about that].

Vellturo: No

Quinn: Page 49 do you see here on left-hand-side where it says here Samsung identifies who its competitors are?

Vellturo: It does.

Quinn: For first smartphone buyer it identifies ?comp? on right-hand-side

Vellturo: It adds those to the list but those are newer comp

Quinn: Well the way to read from left to right flash phones for carriers who key comp –

Vellturo: I see that language

Quinn: The way read whole docmuents

Quinn: Help me out here Dr. Vellturo first smartphone left-hand-side and ?? right key competitors – key competitors

Vellturo: I do

Quinn: Key competiorrs

Vellturo: Yes

Quinn: Apple on bottom

Vellturo: On this slide ??

Quinn: I am talking about do you see here your role advocate?

Vellturo: No.

Unknown: I am ?? all the data

Quinn: Skip over to page 214 page 76. This is another page that did not show the jury. At the top here is our plan to win right?

Vellturo: Yes I see that.

Quinn: And it says Samsung investing in services – ?? expand Samsung ecosystem do you see?

Vellturo: I do

Quinn: And is another show jury [from surrounding text probably Mr. Quinn said didn’t show].

Vellturo: I didn’t show right.

Quinn: And will you turn to page 54 of ?213? talks about Samsung strategy wining lt consumer oyalty another page you didn’t show.

Vellturo: I didn’t.

Quinn: And it talks about creating ?? marketing idea – marketing idea?

Vellturo: Oh yes.

Quinn: ???

Vellturo: I do.

Quinn: ?? ?? execution see that

Vellturo: Yes

Quinn: And you understand in enormous efforts brand awareness

Vellturo: Yes.

Quinn: Samsung very successful with that

Vellturo: [Gave generally affirmative response.]


Quinn: Let’s talk more about your roll as this cae this type of work 200 cases

Vellturo: It was different when starting out

Unknown: Well in terms engaged in litigation (he needed)

Quinn: You told 200 instances right?

Vellturo: Correct.

Quinn: In fact you are not professional.

Vellturo: Well I am a professional economist professor sometimes leased me to do this.

Quinn: Well previous year 90% doing this type of work.

Vellturo: Correct over last year.

Quinn: Last five years professional work paid 80-85 percent this type of work.

Vellturo: No. I’m not sure teaching. That took significant chunk.

Quinn: So in terms when you are actually paid – over the pevious 5 years paid 80-85 percent

Vellturo: Yes through QES and was also compensated – not a lot

Quinn: Lets make sure same page – 80 85 percent paid was for doing this type of work.

Vellturo: That sounds right  – teaching.

Quinn: Just to be you are not on faculty – and ??

Vellturo: Correct.

Quinn: Never..?

Vellturo: ?List?

Quinn: Never been on faculty on institutional basis –

Vellturo: True.

Quinn: Lecture – two times you lectured Boston University

Vellturo: No I didn’t just come in.

Quinn: I taught two courses in last 5 years.

Vellturo?: At least as of time deposition in this case – work on preliminary injunction reversed 1.15 million billing Apple that is what I recall yes

Quinn: How much did Apple pay you ?? deposition?

Vellturo: I know all this case including trial 2.03 million.

Quinn: And that covers work up to what point time?

Vellturo: Essentially now.

Quinn: All week watching haven’t billed?

Unknown?: Have not bill march?

Vellturo: Not first April

Quinn?: You knew ask

Quinn: Does total include March?

Vellturo: Yes.

Quinn: This isn’t first time you worked for Apple.

Vellturo: Yes.

Quinn: Apple comes back again and again to give opinions in court?

Vellturo: Yes

Quinn: They hired you some 20 times

Vellturo: Fifteen.

Quinn: Fifteen times thank you.

Quinn: You are a professional witness for Apple?

Vellturo: If I were I would not work for Microsoft and ??? direct competitor(?s?).

Quinn: Well what you do they select documents and you do analysis and you make selections for Apple case and you come to court and ?

Vellturo: No that is not right.

Quinn: OK

Vellturo: Very first step of that was not right.


Quinn: Well lets look at other document and other documents you were provided if we could put up on screen – we are looking at another graph where you had 4 or 5 documents do you recall that?

Vellturo: Yes

Quinn: If we could look – actualy I think clear thousands documents in this case and you made selection?

Vellturo: Yes.

Quinn: One document that you ddin’t show to jury is exhibit def exhibit 489.245 ?wif? we could put that up – (email) – and this in evidence email from Steve Jobs blow up on top Octobert 24, 2010 at bottom 2011 – holy war with google – you see that ?your honor?

Vellturo: I’m sorry you are asking me?

Quinn: Yes.

Vellturo: Do I have?

Quinn: Let me just ask you ? you can see that…??


Quinn: This is not a document cite in report?

Vellturo: I think in documents I considered but you didn’t

Quinn: Will you check over lunch?

Vellturo: Yes

Quinn: One of the things it said strategy catch up android nofication sptether speech and leaping them (Sirir) D489.245 Iam sure it is

Vellturo: I am trying to see the whole document I have 48???

Judge Koh – ?? locate document

Quinn: OK its on may I approach witness

Koh: its just a ?? he find it

Vellturo: OK I see it

Quinn: And number 5 strategy catch-up where we are behind point number 5.

Vellturo: Yes I see that.

Quinn: Number 6 Google cloud serves see that?

Vellturo: I do.

Quinn: Android deeply integrates cloud servers contact calendar email you see that?

Vellturo: Yes.

Quinn: And so this document October 25 2010 let’s ?? this graph here takes pen (1) on one point (annotates holy war catch up to Android) –

Vellturo: Can you squeeze it?

Quinn: Koh its 12:01 now

 [A break was taken for lunch.]

[Missed 35 mins – watched 5 so missed 30 – he continued to had write in that chart

Quinn: Page 14 you ‘ll see “what is going on” document you see that sir?

Vellturo: I do yes.

Quinn: You’ll see left-hand-side strongest demand less expensive larger screen see?

Vellturo: I do.

Quinn: Middle carriers strong interest capping iPhone – high share, subsidy premium unfriendly lack of alignment

Vellturo: I do see that language.

Quinn: Competitors right-hand-side – comptitors have drastically improved hardware and ecosystem some cases ecosystems  – spending obscene amounts money advertising and /or or carrier channel to gain traction?

Vellturo?: [I suppose he said I do here].

Quinn: Exhibit pulled p – comsumers want what we don’t have –

Quinn: See that?

Vellturo – involves countries he was going through book.

Quinn: Consumer want what we don’t’ have see that?

Vellturo: I see that.

Quinn: Where does growth come from 91 – $300 and +4 – 159 <300 -22 everything else

Quinn: See that ….

Unkown: Mr. Schiller

Unknown: Here for all

Quinn: Were you here when Schiller saying just one sales person.

Quinn: Do you recall him saying not official Apple document

Vellturo: I do recall that.

Quinn: Permission to read in testimony page …. “Question – this is what I’m talking about correct

Unknown: Yes but this is one ?lales? leader who put together document this is not Apple doc with our stance.

Quinn: So you’ve now identified this is on person do

Vellturo: One person


Quinn: This is not true right?

Vellturo: I don’t know I would defer to Schiller.

Quinn: I you will take a look at exhibit — —-

Vellturo: OK

Quinn: And this is exhibit

Vellturo: ?? iv’e got covered email

Quinn: You can see Apple ….

Vellturo: Yes…

Unknown: Admitted something

Quinn: If we can put on first screen of this at the top – this is doc – ?? burk email at Apple and number of other people – all have Apple email addresses and

Vellturo: I do.

Quinn: And there is reference to Mr. Oppenheimer?

Vellturo: I see Openheimer.

Quinn: Chief Financial Officer Peter Oppenheimer.

Vellturo: I believe correct.

Quinn: Attaches a same Mr. Schiller not official one person document correct? In terms of page ??

Vellturo: I see that slide and yet.

Unknown: ??page

Unknown: I see that

Unknown: Page 06 facing ?? headwinds

Unknown: That is not the same list. Has some common elements

Unknown: Page 10

Unknown: OK

Unknown: Consumer’s want what we don’t have

Unknown: I’m sorry that’s the last page

Unknown: No its page 10 – a

Unknown: OK

Unknown: Again consumers want what we don’t have.

Unknown: I see that but is not same document. So I’m not sure. I see the bars are the same.

Unknown: The numbers are not the same

Unknown: Says consumer want what we don’t have

Unknown: ???Larger screens

Unknown: ???yes part



Unknown: Samsung Galaxy ?3?

Unknown: Yes.

Koh – not seald 1,4,5,13,??

Unknown: Consumers want what we don’t have in April 2013. – adds another item to the Samsung US Smartphone market share chart.

Quinn: Sir if you were trying to educate the jury about what factors had caused increase in Samsung market share smartphone – in  exhibit do you think fair independent to also call jurors attention other things going on apple – apple’s own observations and not having what consumers want. Fair

Vellturo: I was trying to id specific to inventions. There are lots of other thins I did not take into consideration…

Quinn: Well now thinking about it …

Vellturo: Yes multiple reasons.

Quinn: What you are trying 5 small software feature are reason market share jury

Vellturo: No that’s not

Quinn: Well if you were trying to explain why market share do you think would be fair ? ??? screen size retrial.  Fair

Vellturo: Yes. And I do.

Quinn: So you do take into account but then you put this chart you decided only to put these things because you thought it would help Apple.

Vellturo: No that is not why these are here.


Quinn: I’d like to chage subjects now and talk about how you arrived at allocations of what sales – additional sales apple would make – a but-for world a world where Apple is not software features.

Vellturo: I think so.

Quinn: You said ?? candidates for lost profits

Vellturo: At the first stage.

Quinn: Candiates ???

Vellturo: Yes that’s what issued.

Quinn: And you Apple would capture candiate sales capture equal to market share?

Vellturo: Almost.

Quinn: You made adjustment carriers

Vellturo: I did that adjustment too

Quinn: So basically number units Hauser number fewer

Vellturo: Shaking head no


Unknown: Its different off the market diminished demand period

Unknown: We are only talking about?

Unknown: Then that’s essentially correct



Quinn: You apply to that Apple’s market share roughly.

Vellturo: Very roughly.

Quinn: Right you use market share varies close to 40 percent and you got that from ITC database.

Unknown: ?Positive?

Quinn?: One thing we know sales lost ??? Samsung lost these sales because ?no features definition Samsung otherwise

Vellturo?: No idea what that means

Quinn: You apply to number of sales Samsung??

Vellturo: Apply to Samsung sales infringing wouln’t have made non-infringing.

Quinn: One thing we know those are decision Android phone.

Vellturo: That would be accused all units

Quinn: Those would be Samsung Android phone?

Vellturo: Correct

Quinn: Lets see how reasonable –

Vellturo: [Nods]

Quinn: You have not exhibit ?? Now this you are familiar ttith the ?? phone??

Vellturo: Yes.

Quinn: Samsung very different phone.

Vellturo: In some respects in other very similar.

Quinn: Somone looking for note ?2? is looking for different iPhone.

Vellturo: That is not true

Quinn: This has 5.2 inch screen.

Vellturo: Correct.

Quinn: The Apple does not have.

Vellturo: It has stylus taken out.

Quinn: Apple doesn’t have

Vellturo: That’s true too

Quinn: Has multiple browsing – iPhone ?eno?

Vellturo: Correct.

Quinn: GHZ Zanos chip Apple does not have that.

Vellturo: Samsung chip rest doesn’t know

Quinn: Communications/ iPhone doesn have

Vellturo: Yes

Quinn: Can we agree buy this phone buy phone very different from iPhone?

Unknown: No sir if you look at internal documents ?sat? Samsung people who buy Note what are consider to iPhone 5

Unknown: Were talking about buying Samsung.

Unknown: Perfectly reasonable those who did not buy because didn’t have software feature capture amount equal market share not withstanding ??

Unknown: Yes based on ?? survey?


Unknown: Isn’t it safe to assume another Android screen?

Unknown: Another non-infringing



Unknown: Was top consideration for iPhone 5 and also?


Quinn: In doing your work you’ve seen a lot of why people survey why Apple does a lot

Vellturo: Yes.

Quinn: If we can see ??? and I’d like to show ???  Ok this is evidence pages 12 and 13 put 12 up and this example “ Primary reason for purchasing an iPhone – Apple internal document. Reason by country.

Vellturo: That is one thing ?? iPhone too

Quinn: And on left-hand-side reasons consumer state for purchasing iPhone correct?

Vellturo: Yes I see that.

Quinn: We see that here 16% wanted specific iPhone model capability?

Vellturo: I do.

Quinn: And then turn page 15 apple survey of those who want what features –

Vellturo: I see that.

Quinn: Siri – ??? ?? thinness, battery life?

Vellturo: I see that.

Quinn: ?? going through all?? You’ve seen other surveys also


Quinn: ?? and have you ever seen a survey which showed said you know I want 3 component ??

Vellturo: I’ve never seen that would not make sense user experience – asking about technical background would not make sense

Quinn: The reason I want to make sure it has

Vellturo: I would not expect – that’s not how feature I am sorry inventions satisfaction it is general user experience

Quinn: ?? if someone wanted to copy Apple’s claimed 3 component background they couldn’t look at iphone to do it because is not

Vellturo: I am not expert Apple doesn’t practice.

Quinn: That is it is claim s3 don’t use.

Vellturo: My understanding correct.

Quinn: Nobody could copy because Apple doesn’t practice.

Vellturo: I don’t know how all that works not technology expert.

Quinn: Right and there other surveys linking structures in action.

Vellturo: No I would not expect.

Quinn: What I am really looking for globally phone and Internet that’s really why buy?

Vellturo: I have not seen something that detailed would not make sense to do survey that way.


Quinn: Let me as you this is it important to you at all you spend a lot of time very experienced done a lot for Apple and presented huge damages claim over 2 billion dollars.

Vellturo: That’s the number correct?

Quinn: Is it important itself ??? number

Vellturo: Sure ???

Quinn: And you know – does that increase the value that doesn’t do it

Vellturo: No that??

Quinn: Do you factor at all

Vellturo: No I would not factor – focused on benefit patented inventions in terms of where that

Quinn: Now you said you reviewed Dr Hauser perfectly fine.

Vellturo: I didn’t see anything numbers out of kilter to me I did not – nitty gritty not conjoint expert

Quinn: You satisfy you feel appropriate to rely on survey.

Vellturo: Does it stand to reason that if you survey about small feaatures and leave out the large ones it will make small ones more important.

Unknown: Not ?nece? problem at all

Unknown: What about take out read feature to them show icons video educate and emphasize feature do you think that might make more important features

Unknown: Now more ?giity? execution

Unknown: You are stepping beyond

Quinn: Laugh you are relying on survey to tell jury that owes 2 billion

Vellturo: For part

Quinn: And you are not willing opine you can make small features more important – educate descriptions leave out large.

Vellturo: Dr. Hauser addressed all those issues and makes sense but I am not a technology expert.

Quinn: Are you trying to distance yourself now from Dr. Hauser?


Unknown: This is base on discussion Galaxy Nexus that all operating system drive all ?? applications software ?? is pure ???

Unknown: I’ve heard that said quite a number of times ?? but I’ve heard

Quinn: You know that software is made by Google not Samsung.

Vellturo: Again that’s my understanding that not my personally

Quinn: But you know Samsung sued galaxy nexus by infringing

Vellturo: Yes


Unknown: Software Google

Unknown: On phones sell for everyone

Quinn: And its your opinion these particular patent claims so important significant feature ??

Vellturo: For some consumers yes.

Quinn: So if we can look at ?? one of your demonstratives – confidential.  This is a – you prepared this?

Vellturo: Yes.

Quinn: ?? Galaxy sales versus other accused products – yes the ?gal?

Vellturo: Yes.

Quinn: The Galaxy Nexus is supposed to infringe all these super valuable

Unknown: Didn’t do very well right

Unknown: Had some sales ???

Unknown: As opposed to the S3 which only alleged ??2??

Unknown: Do

Unknown: Yes

Quinn: Does this fact cause you question at all they do drive sales

Vellturo: No not at all  – there are other features that drive demand and sometimes they sales but you need these features to have good ??
Unknown: And that’s

Redirect of Dr. Vellturo by Apple Attorney (not McElhinny) 


Koh time 1:58

Alright time 1:59

Attorney: Very briefly Dr vellturo is it possible that – show markup

Vellturo: Yes.

Attorney: Introduced all were largest drivers s2 s3 ?

Vellturo: By ?bar?

Attorney: ??? confidential preference chart – those products all include invention of ??

Vellturo: They all did

Attorney: All background sync?

Vellturo: They did.

Attorney: Universal search?

Vellturo: Yes.

Attorney: Mr Quinn up here waiving Samsung didn’t all these people buy this product I want to make sure clear internal Samsung document ??

Attorney?: In chart Samsung document where called reg service? Where they survey people who had bough tthem asked what other phones considered and top hphen was iphone 5. Mr. Quinn used minor features did you see technology not just minor features wer eincorporate designers choices side by side choices their products and pipone

Vellturo: Yes

Attorney: Nothing further


At this point Apple rested it’s case.


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